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	<title>Comments on: &#8220;El Fuego&#8221; Does It Again</title>
	<atom:link href="http://lisbongamer.mc-two.com/2006/09/16/el-fuego-does-it-again/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://lisbongamer.mc-two.com/2006/09/16/el-fuego-does-it-again/</link>
	<description>Random musings on games, game design and other matters of import.</description>
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		<title>By: joao-mendes</title>
		<link>http://lisbongamer.mc-two.com/2006/09/16/el-fuego-does-it-again/#comment-1188</link>
		<dc:creator>joao-mendes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Sep 2006 08:57:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lisbongamer.mc-two.com/index.php/2006/09/16/el-fuego-does-it-again/#comment-1188</guid>
		<description>Hey, Rui, :)

Well, yes and no. I get the most out of those meetups when new people show up, and unfortunately, lately, there just hasn&#039;t been much of that, but I can write that off as being Summer and all.

Never give up. Never say die! :)

But yeah, I know what you mean, no biggie...

Cheers,
J.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey, Rui, <img src='http://lisbongamer.mc-two.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Well, yes and no. I get the most out of those meetups when new people show up, and unfortunately, lately, there just hasn&#8217;t been much of that, but I can write that off as being Summer and all.</p>
<p>Never give up. Never say die! <img src='http://lisbongamer.mc-two.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>But yeah, I know what you mean, no biggie&#8230;</p>
<p>Cheers,<br />
J.</p>
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		<title>By: Rui Anselmo</title>
		<link>http://lisbongamer.mc-two.com/2006/09/16/el-fuego-does-it-again/#comment-1121</link>
		<dc:creator>Rui Anselmo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 Sep 2006 10:17:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lisbongamer.mc-two.com/index.php/2006/09/16/el-fuego-does-it-again/#comment-1121</guid>
		<description>So I take it you&#039;re not getting as much from the monthly rpg meetings, eh? ;)

Anyways, I&#039;ve given up.

I enjoy most games I play, GM or GM&#039;less, and I don&#039;t go about pointing fingers; it&#039;s the same as I used to say, not too long ago, that D&amp;D was not &quot;real rpg&quot;, because it tended heavily on the &quot;game&quot; side; of course it&#039;s a rpg, it&#039;s as much rpg as MLwM or Exalted, only it&#039;s played differently from others. No biggie.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So I take it you&#8217;re not getting as much from the monthly rpg meetings, eh? <img src='http://lisbongamer.mc-two.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Anyways, I&#8217;ve given up.</p>
<p>I enjoy most games I play, GM or GM&#8217;less, and I don&#8217;t go about pointing fingers; it&#8217;s the same as I used to say, not too long ago, that D&amp;D was not &#8220;real rpg&#8221;, because it tended heavily on the &#8220;game&#8221; side; of course it&#8217;s a rpg, it&#8217;s as much rpg as MLwM or Exalted, only it&#8217;s played differently from others. No biggie.</p>
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		<title>By: joao-mendes</title>
		<link>http://lisbongamer.mc-two.com/2006/09/16/el-fuego-does-it-again/#comment-1109</link>
		<dc:creator>joao-mendes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 Sep 2006 02:11:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lisbongamer.mc-two.com/index.php/2006/09/16/el-fuego-does-it-again/#comment-1109</guid>
		<description>Ahey, :)
&lt;blockquote&gt;he said that it was fun, but once again it wasn’t a real roleplaying game. [...] he ensured me that it wasn’t a value judgment&lt;/blockquote&gt;
This one I particularly revile. &lt;em&gt;Of course&lt;/em&gt; it is a value judgement, and in my mind, it happens to be a particularly insidious one.
&lt;blockquote&gt;why would I be interested in if a game holds up to someone else’s limited view on roleplaying or not?&lt;/blockquote&gt;
This, on the other hand, is ultimately the right response, although there are some limitations attached. Namely, it gets hard to have real conversations about role-playing with these people, because you just can&#039;t get through the unbased assumptions. As for conversations about game design, that&#039;s just outright impossible.

Which is an interesting connundrum when you have these conversations in the bosom of, say, a monthly role-players meetup, wherein virtually &lt;em&gt;all&lt;/em&gt; conversation is about gaming, in one form or another.

For instance:

&lt;em&gt;Gamer 1: I like the way Game X does this or that;
Gamer 2: Yeah, I like Game Y&#039;s approach, blah blah;
Me: Or, Game Z does this and that;
Gamers 1 &amp; 2: &lt;blank stare&gt; wait, that makes no sense, what about the GM?
Me: Oh, Game Z is GMless;
Gamers 1 &amp; 2: &lt;blank stare again&gt; that&#039;s not a role-playing game;
Me: &lt;my turn to do the blank stare&gt; ...&lt;/em&gt;

Sigh...

Cheers,
J.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ahey, <img src='http://lisbongamer.mc-two.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<blockquote><p>he said that it was fun, but once again it wasn’t a real roleplaying game. [...] he ensured me that it wasn’t a value judgment</p></blockquote>
<p>This one I particularly revile. <em>Of course</em> it is a value judgement, and in my mind, it happens to be a particularly insidious one.</p>
<blockquote><p>why would I be interested in if a game holds up to someone else’s limited view on roleplaying or not?</p></blockquote>
<p>This, on the other hand, is ultimately the right response, although there are some limitations attached. Namely, it gets hard to have real conversations about role-playing with these people, because you just can&#8217;t get through the unbased assumptions. As for conversations about game design, that&#8217;s just outright impossible.</p>
<p>Which is an interesting connundrum when you have these conversations in the bosom of, say, a monthly role-players meetup, wherein virtually <em>all</em> conversation is about gaming, in one form or another.</p>
<p>For instance:</p>
<p><em>Gamer 1: I like the way Game X does this or that;<br />
Gamer 2: Yeah, I like Game Y&#8217;s approach, blah blah;<br />
Me: Or, Game Z does this and that;<br />
Gamers 1 &#038; 2: &lt;blank stare&gt; wait, that makes no sense, what about the GM?<br />
Me: Oh, Game Z is GMless;<br />
Gamers 1 &#038; 2: &lt;blank stare again&gt; that&#8217;s not a role-playing game;<br />
Me: &lt;my turn to do the blank stare&gt; &#8230;</em></p>
<p>Sigh&#8230;</p>
<p>Cheers,<br />
J.</p>
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		<title>By: Jonas Karlsson</title>
		<link>http://lisbongamer.mc-two.com/2006/09/16/el-fuego-does-it-again/#comment-1104</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonas Karlsson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 Sep 2006 23:24:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lisbongamer.mc-two.com/index.php/2006/09/16/el-fuego-does-it-again/#comment-1104</guid>
		<description>Yeah, I had the same experience with my old group of roleplaying friends. Especially one guy would comment on MLwM and Capes and say they weren&#039;t roleplaying games, then after some discussion back down to say that at least they weren&#039;t &lt;i&gt;real&lt;/i&gt; roleplaying games. I don&#039;t remember what Forge game it was when, after playing he said that it was fun, but once again it &lt;i&gt;wasn&#039;t a real roleplaying game&lt;/i&gt;. I was annoyed, but he ensured me that it wasn&#039;t a value judgment, just a general observation. Then again, why would I be interested in if a game holds up to someone else&#039;s limited view on roleplaying or not?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, I had the same experience with my old group of roleplaying friends. Especially one guy would comment on MLwM and Capes and say they weren&#8217;t roleplaying games, then after some discussion back down to say that at least they weren&#8217;t <i>real</i> roleplaying games. I don&#8217;t remember what Forge game it was when, after playing he said that it was fun, but once again it <i>wasn&#8217;t a real roleplaying game</i>. I was annoyed, but he ensured me that it wasn&#8217;t a value judgment, just a general observation. Then again, why would I be interested in if a game holds up to someone else&#8217;s limited view on roleplaying or not?</p>
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